Brannon:  Welcome to the Worldview Weekend Hour.  I’m Brannon Howse.  My guest today is going to be Chris Pinto.  He’s been with us before.  He’s back again for another series of programs on “The Counter-Reformation of the Jesuit Order.”  We’ve both been doing a lot of research over the last few years, and we’re now combining our research, particularly the last 12 months we’ve done a lot of research, and now we’re combining our research for a series of programs, “The Counter-Reformation of the Jesuit Order.”

Chris, welcome back to the Memphis, Tennessee, area over from Nashville.

Chris:  Well, it’s exciting to be here again.  I like this area.

Brannon:  Well, thank you.  We had a great Branson Worldview Weekend a few weeks ago, didn’t we?

Chris:  Yeah, we had an awesome time.

Brannon:  That was your first time to be at our Branson Worldview Weekend with all those other speakers.  The response was really great, wasn’t it?

Chris:  Yeah, there were a lot of people there.  Everybody was very excited, very zealous for learning and zealous for the truth.  It was a great time.

Brannon:  And you also have a daily national radio program noiseofthunder.com.  He has a program you can hear at worldviewradio.com.  Worldviewradio.com, or noiseofthunder.com is his website; you’ll find it there as well.  We had a lot of our folks at our Worldview Weekend in Minneapolis that heard you speak, our Worldview Weekend in Branson, some more that you’ll be with us in the future, that are following your ministry now because of your national radio show noiseofthunder.com.  You’ve been doing that show now – what? – about a year now?

Chris:  Just over a year.  We started in May of 2011.  So, we just had our one-year anniversary a short time ago.

Brannon:  And I think I remember the stats after about the first 4 weeks, you were doing about 4,000 downloads a month, weren’t you?

Chris:  Yeah, I think that was it.

Brannon:  It’s well higher than that now.

Chris:  Yeah, it’s higher than that now.

Brannon:  So, you’ve acquired quite the following.  And you can check out his radio show on our website worldviewradio.com.  All right, well, you’ve been doing a lot of research; I’ve been doing research.  We talk about this sometimes on our radio show, and particularly when you come on my radio show, and then we’ve been sharing our research back and forth on the phone, e-mailing each other information that we both find, and we decided we’d do a series of TV programs where I present some of my information, and you come in and then, in another program, you’ll present some of your information.  So, this is not your typical interview setting, where I just shoot questions at Chris.  This is going to be more where I present some of the things I’ve uncovered, and then he’s going to comment, and then a couple programs from now, after we’ve moved through the stuff I’ve put together, he’ll present what he’s uncovered, and then I’ll comment.  So, we’re really kind of bringing our research together to share with you.

Chris:  Yep.

Brannon:  Wouldn’t that be about the proper way to put it –

Chris:  Yeah.

Brannon:  – put it together for folks to understand?  All right, well, let’s start out with the idea of the Counter-Reformation and the Jesuit order.  Of course, we know the Jesuit order officially came into being around 1540 with Ignatius Loyola.  But it would be accurate to say that really the idea and the concepts were going on before Ignatius, but he really just kind of formed it and really gave it some organization, didn’t he?

Chris:  Yeah.  I’d said that he was – he had formed a company of priests who were his followers and his disciples and this kind of thing, because he had saw what the Reformers were doing.  And what had happened at that time, if you read the book on the Jesuits by J. A. Wylie, Wylie talks about how all of the countries of Europe, which had been Catholic – or Western Europe, really – which had been Catholic, and devoted to the pope, that from the time of Luther onward, in less than half-a-century, all but two of the nations of Western Europe had turned and become Protestant reformed countries.  So, what ended up happening was you only had Italy and Spain who remained under papal authority.

And so, all the other countries of Europe had become these reformed Protestant countries, and the pope realized he had to do something.  So, there was this Spanish solider who had been wounded in battle.  His name was Ignatius Loyola, and he was very offended by the Reformers, because he was a very zealous Roman Catholic.  And so, in 1540, he goes to the Vatican, meets with Pope Paul III, and gets a commission to found a military order, in the Catholic Church, whose purpose was to overturn the Protestant Reformation.

Brannon:  And that’s why we refer to it as a Counter-Reformation.

Chris:  Right, and that’s what they called it as well.  I mean that’s the historic term.

Brannon:  And that’s going on to this day.  I mean here we are, filming in Memphis, Tennessee, in May – late May of 2012, and this Counter-Reformation is still going on today.  In fact, I was talking to a former Catholic priest, a mutual friend of yours and mine.  He was a Catholic priest for 22 years, Richard Bennett.  And I asked him on the air, “Doesn’t the Council of the Inquisition still exist – the Office of the Inquisitions still exist?”  It’s never been closed.  He verified that, yes, that Office of the Inquisition in the Vatican has never been closed.

Chris:  Right.  And many people don’t realize that the former Grand Inquisitor, the person who was the head of the Inquisition, during the reign of Pope John Paul II, was Cardinal Ratzinger, who then, after John Paul II died, Cardinal Ratzinger became Pope Benedict XVI.

Brannon:  I think it’s important you back up and say what you just said again, so people really understand what you just said.

Chris:  The current pope, Pope Benedict XVI, is the former head of Rome’s Great Inquisition in modern times.  He was the Grand Inquisitor.  And this is well known and admitted in the Catholic Church if you go – there are even some modern websites that kind of make fun of the idea, who are in favor of Pope Benedict.  They say, “Oh, yeah, he’s our former Grand Inquisitor,” this kind of thing.  They tell jokes about it, but it’s a very real office, and he held a very real position.

Brannon:  And again, most people don’t realize – I mean it’s amazing the church history that people don’t know.  And I’m embarrassed of the church history I don’t know, after I learn something.  Like, “How did I not know this?”  You know?  But, for instance, the inquisition went on really, as we call it today, for 605 years.  But really, in many respects, it’s never stopped; it’s still going.  But the – as we call it, the Inquisition of the Church of Rome went on for 605 years, I believe it was, wasn’t it?

Chris:  Yeah, I usually tell people that it went on for more than 600 years, because, like you said, there’s never really any point in history that you can say –

Brannon:  It stopped.

Chris:  – the Inquisition ended, because in the mid-19th century, when the Italian revolutionaries went in, they go into the papal prisons, in the 1850s, and they discovered that they were still torturing people in the underground inquisition there in Rome.  And you’ve even got writers like Charles Spurgeon, who were writing about this in his magazine The Sword and the Trowel.  Then you read the book by Edmond Paris –

Brannon:  Do you have that?

Chris:  Yeah, I have a copy of it, The Secret History of the Jesuits, and Edmond Paris, who was a French journalist basically revealed the connections between Nazi Germany and the Vatican and the Jesuit order.

Brannon:  And I have my copy here.  As you can see, it’s all flagged up with – I mean – and again, this book by Edmond Paris, while it’s being published by someone different, it was actually written by Edmond Paris.  So, they shouldn’t confuse maybe who’s publishing it with the author Edmond Paris, because this was published years after he wrote it.

Chris:  Years after he wrote it.  And he basically reveals that World War II and the Holocaust, under Hitler, was a modern-day Inquisition.  That’s what the Holocaust was.  And this seems to be the conclusion, as well, of a former Roman Catholic – Catholic priest named Dr. L. H. Lehmann, and he wrote this book during World War II, and it’s called Behind the Dictators.  And the whole point of the book was to reveal that the Vatican and the papacy was really behind the dictators, in particular Hitler and Mussolini.

Brannon:  And there’s a lot of documentation in this book, The Secret History of the Jesuits, that goes into how the Jesuits were definitely working, and the Church of Rome was definitely working with the Vatican.  You know, Hitler was trying to build the Third Reich, and we go back, and we talk about the First Reich coming into being around 800 with Charlemagne, and that kind of became the model, correct?  Or was it 600 for Charlemagne?

Chris:  Yeah, Charlemagne is considered the first Holy Roman Emperor.  He was crowned by the pope, and so he becomes essentially the emperor over all of Europe.

Brannon:  Was it 600 or 800?  Do you remember the date?

Chris:  It was in the eighth century.

Brannon:  Eighth century, okay.  And so, he gets the title, Holy Roman Emperor there in Germany.  He gets that from the pope, from the Vatican.

Chris:  Right.

Brannon:  And that’s your First Reich.

Chris:  That’s the First Reich.

Brannon:  And then you move on to your Second Reich, which again are the same thing.  Different time period, same idea, same concept.  The leader there in Germany getting his title from the pope.  Then Hitler tried to bring in his Third Reich.  And by the way, the term Reich means empire or kingdom.  The word Reich means empire or kingdom.  So, there was a First Reich, a Second Reich, Hitler’s Third Reich.  We can clearly prove the connection of the First and Second Reich to the Vatican, and the Third Reich we can also prove the connection of Hitler’s Reich to the Vatican, not only in The Secret History of the Jesuits, but what do you have there.

Chris:  I’ve got this book.  Now, this, I think, is a very important book.  This is written by Adrian Hilton, who was part of the Conservative British Political Party over in England, and it’s called The Principality and Power of Europe.  And what he writes about, he writes about the whole history of the relationship between Germany and the Vatican, and how the Holy Roman Emperor was always the king of Germany.  And that’s why right now, when they’re talking about the European Union, and they’re saying that Germany essentially rules the European Union, that that’s very significant historically because the European Union is essentially a modernized version of trying to recreate the Holy Roman Empire.

Brannon:  And there is going to be a revived Holy Roman Empire because Daniel Chapter 2 speaks of this.  Daniel Chapter 2 speaks of this.  Daniel Chapter 7 speaks of this.  Revelation 13, Revelation 17 all speak of this revived Roman Empire that actually becomes the revived Holy Roman Empire.  And in fact, this was recently even in the news.  This is coming from the express.co.uk.  This is an article dated in May of 2012.  “EU Plot to Scrap Britain.”  This is May 4, 2012.  Here’s what it says.  It says that, “– the desire to merge the jobs of President of the European Council and President of the European Commission,” that’s their goal, “to create a Super European Union President.”  But there are people who are not so happy about this.  The article goes on to say, “The new bureaucrat would not be directly elected by voters.  It’s set to get sweeping control over the entire EU, enforce member countries into ever greater political and economic union.”

That economic union is so crucial because right now, as we’re filming in May of 2012, they got a real mess over there in Europe.  But CNBC had an article yesterday by an author, talking about the fact that this whole mess over there may be actually manipulated on purpose to create this United States of Europe.  CNBC has an article by a guy named Patrick – I think his name was Patrick Allen, saying, “Hey, you ever think that this whole crisis over there, this whole financial crisis – why do these guys act so calm and so laid back about what’s happening as these world leaders get together?  And they just act so confident and laid back about it.”  He goes on to say, “Perhaps this entire financial crisis has been used deliberately in order to create what was the goal all along, was a United States of Europe or a Revived Europe.

And so, here you have this article dated May 4, 2012, saying, “Hey, if you get a Super European Union President combining the jobs of the President of the European Council and the President of the European Commission, and you create this Super EU President, he can force onto these countries greater economic union.”  Because right now, there are a lot of nations, particularly London, not using the euro.  So, if they can force them all into one currency, they’re definitely giving up their sovereignty and coming together.  I thought it was interesting that even CNBC had an article by a columnist saying, “Maybe this chaos has always been the desire to get people to go where they wanted them to go with the European Union.”

Chris:  Yeah, people over there – I mean I’ve talked to people who are from England and from that whole part of the world, and they say that the design of the European Union, from the beginning, has been to ultimately force all of these nations together on behalf of Rome.  And what they did is, apparently, during World War II, they used Fascism; they used Mussolini in Italy, and then they used Hitler in Germany to try and force Fascism upon the whole of Europe and unite Europe by force.  Then that didn’t work; it fell apart.  Hitler loses the war, and then afterwards, they said, “All right, we got to do something.”  So, they changed their tactic, and they developed this idea of economic interdependence through the EU.  And the idea was, “Well, if we’re economically interdependent on each other, then we won’t go to war again.”  And now, it’s all falling to pieces, and they’ve got chaos, and they’ve got people over in Greece who are committing suicide literally.  I mean older people who cannot survive economically, and they’re killing themselves.  They’ve got parents that are taking their kids and dropping them off at the local Greek Orthodox Church with a sign around their neck saying, “I can’t take care of my kids; please take care of them for me.”  I mean this is the kind of chaos that’s happening right now in that part of the world.

Brannon:  It’s sad.  The article in the express.co.uk continues on saying, “Opponents fear the plan could create a modern-day equivalent of the European emperor envisioned by Napoleon Bonaparte, or a return to the Holy Roman Empire of Charlemagne that dominated Europe in the Dark Ages.”  Chris, that’s very interesting, because here is a secular publication saying, “Hey, this idea that we’re seeing being bantered around here in May of 2012, the secular press is reporting that opponents of this are saying, ‘Hey, this could create a revived Holy Roman Empire.’”  Not just a revived Roman Empire, which the Bible says will happen – Daniel 2 and Daniel 7, Revelation 13, Revelation 17.

There will be a revived Roman Empire.  But they go so far, in this secular press, opponents in Europe are saying this might actually create a revived Holy Roman Empire.  The Holy part would be the dominance of the Church of Rome over this union.  And we see multiple articles if you go back in time.  Here’s one from October of 2003 – October 31, 2003.  This is a headline, “Religion is Key to Protecting Human Life and Protecting Peace Pope says to European Leaders.”  Again, October 31, 2003, you have the pope, Pope John Paul II saying, “Hey, if you’re going to do this, you’re doing to be successful, religion has got to be a big part of what you’re doing.”

Then you fast forward to another article I found.  This is October of 2009, and this is, “Pope Says Europe Needs Christian Values to Prosper.  The values Christianity fostered on the continent are what inspired the movement toward European unity and are the only guarantee of its success,” the pope said October 19, 2009.  So, you have the last pope, the current pope as we sit here in 2012, saying, “Hey, if the European Union is to succeed, it’s got to be about religion.”

We have Tony Blair, the former Prime Minister of Great Britain saying what?  “We’ve got to have religion.  Religion is going to be the key to globalization.”  He has the Tony Blair Faith Foundation to bring the religions of the world together.  So, here you have a secular publication saying, “Opponents fear this will create a return to not just a Roman Empire, but a Holy Roman Empire,” the connection back to the Vatican.

Chris:  And I believe that this is something – I mean from my research, this is something that the Vatican, and the Jesuit order in particular, have been working on for at least 200 years, because they talked about this back in 1825 and the early part of the 19th century.  They talked about creating a gigantic temple into which they would force all mankind to enter.  And that the way they would do it is to make themselves all things to all men.  In other words, find a way to accommodate everybody’s belief system.

Brannon:  Ecumenicalism.

Chris:  Ecumenicalism.  And then, you find this movement, through the 19th century, leading up to the World Parliament of Religions in 1893, and that’s when they began to pull all of these different religious groups together that beforehand had been dramatically separated by theological differences.  And so – and then, of course, these leads to Vatican Council II and the Ecumenical Movement that we’ve been overwhelmed by here in modern times.

Brannon:  Absolutely.  This article in the express.co.uk continues saying, “Paul Nuttall of the U.K. Independence Party said, quote, ‘This is a truly ridiculous idea that must never be allowed to happen.  It sounds as if they are trying to go back to the days of the Holy Roman Empire.’”  So, again, we have the idea of this Holy Roman Empire being mentioned several times.  And we did have a First Reich.  We had a Second Reich.  We had a Third Reich – Hitler.  We even – I think it’s History Channel and Military Channel – I know it’s History Channel, I’ve seen documentaries talking about the fact that the Vatican was involved in taking SS criminals out of Germany through what was called the ratline and moving them down to South America.

So, the evidence for the Vatican being involved in a Holy Roman Empire, the First Reich, the Second Reich, the Third Reich is overwhelming.  I now believe we’re seeing the creation of a Fourth Reich.  Again, Reich meaning empire or kingdom.  I believe we’re seeing the beginning of that Reich being built again, that empire, that kingdom.  It’ll be a Holy Roman Empire – not just a revived Roman Empire, but a Holy Roman Empire. 

Here’s a picture of Tony Blair signing the European Union Constitution on Capitol Hill Line in Rome October 29, 2004.  Chris, notice the humongous statue behind him, Pope Innocent X, as they sit there and sign the Constitution to create the European Union.  Again, overwhelming evidence the Vatican has been heavily involved in pushing this idea for a long time.

Chris:  Yeah, and Tony Blair, it’s generally believed by people who research these things, that he was sort of a secret agent for the Vatican while he was Prime Minister of England.  Because the day after he left that office, he converted and became a Roman Catholic.  His wife is a devout Catholic and so on.  And so, it was known that he had very strong Catholic leanings, and that all seemed – and he met with the pope repeatedly, and it all seems to fit in with his view of Rome.  And now, once he left office, like you said before, he starts this Tony Blair Faith Foundation, and he’s really pushing interfaith and trying to find ways to unite all the different religions of the world into a global religious system.

Brannon:  All right, here’s another article.  This one is dated 2011 – May 9, 2011; it’s a little more than a year ago.  “Jesuit to Become Chaplain of the U.S. House of Representatives.”  That’s a first isn’t it?

Chris:  Yeah, the first in history.  John Boehner, who’s a devout Roman Catholic, chose a Jesuit priest, Patrick J. Conroy I think is his name, and he consulted with Nancy.  This is what’s very interesting, because Nancy Pelosi is also a very devout Roman Catholic.  In fact, if you go online you’ll find a picture – a photo of Pelosi bowing and kissing the pope’s ring when he came to America.  So, she’s a very devout Catholic on the left, and John Boehner’s a devout Catholic on the right.  The two of them met together.  They discussed this issue, and they appointed the first Jesuit in history.

Brannon:  So, let’s review.  What we’ve learned is the Jesuit order was officially founded in 1540 by Ignatius Loyola.  The whole idea is a Counter-Reformation.  We believe we can’t be dogmatic on some of these things, but some of them we can be.  But we believe that Scripture tells us definitely there will be a revived Holy Roman Empire – Revelation 13, Revelation 17, Daniel 2, Daniel 7 – as we’ve talked about.  We see the evidence now.  You have the secular press talking about, “Hey, this whole idea of what’s going on in Europe could create a revived Holy Roman Empire.”  We’re showing how we believe the Vatican’s been behind this idea for some time.

And another program I’ll go into great detail – in Daniel 2, Daniel 7 – the European Union Commission, which has already divided the world into ten regions, ten trading blocks, like your European Union, your North American Union, your South American Union.  It seems to be – again, we can’t be dogmatic about this, but it seems to be setting up the idea or the concept of the ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour give their authority and power to the beast.  We don’t know that that will be ten regions of the world divided.  We can’t be dogmatic about it, but it does seem that that’s where we’re going.  And indeed, the Vatican is now continuing to push these concepts and these ideas as we’ll continue seeing in this program.

Here is TIME magazine.  This is April 23, 1973.  Here’s that cover of TIME magazine.  By the way, who is this Jesuit general?  There’s the Jesuit general, for those of you who don’t know, which is often referred to as the Black Pope, because he wears a black robe.  And many think he’s really the power behind the throne, if you will.

Chris:  Right.

Brannon:  Who is this on the cover of TIME magazine?

Chris:  That is Pedro Arrupe.  Pedro Arrupe, who’s one of the more nefarious Jesuit generals in history.  But yeah, Pedro Arrupe, who admitted that Fidel Castro, of course, was trained by the Jesuits.  And when he was confronted about that, he said, “And what makes you think that we are not proud of Fidel Castro?”  And, of course, he’s admitting that they’re very supportive of Castro.  And, of course, that would lead into the whole Jesuit history behind Communism.

Brannon:  Which we’re going to get into in detail in another program.

Chris:  Okay, in another program.  But yeah, that would be the reason why, I think, Pedro Arrupe would be proud of Castro, because the Jesuits designed Communism.

Brannon:  And they used Communism, as we’ll see in another program, for their own advantage.  So, less people think this is conspiracy theory, here we have TIME magazine – again, show the cover if you would – April 23, 1973, doing a huge piece on the Jesuit order.  But we not only have that, here we have a New York Times best-selling book The Jesuits by Martin Malachi.  I believe this book was published in 1987, if I remember correctly.  Let me look here.

Chris:  Malachi Martin.

Brannon:  Malachi Martin, sorry.  Yeah, 1987.  Published in ’87.  It ended up being a New York Times best seller.  Was he a Jesuit?

Chris:  He was a Jesuit.  He left the Jesuit order and then started writing books about what was going on in the Vatican.  And in this book, he gives the assertion that the Jesuits have – because it’s called The Society of Jesus and the Betrayal of the Roman Catholic Church.  So, he’s putting forth the assertion that the Jesuits have betrayed the Catholic Church somehow.

Brannon:  And I don’t – what do you make of that?

Chris:  Well, it’s – you know, it’s hard to say.  I mean he became a very famous, very prominent Catholic ex-Jesuit who wrote these books supposedly as exposures about the controversy happening in the Catholic Church.  But at the same time, if you know history, and you know the history of Jesuits, he’s carefully covering up bits and pieces of information.  And so, I don’t know, I’ve always been somewhat suspicious of his writings, that there’s a certain kind of a Hegelian dialectic going on with him, where the Jesuits had him leave the order and then write these books for a reason, with a purpose in mind.

Brannon:  It’s kind of covering their tracks a little bit.

Chris:  Right.

Brannon:  But I believe, and I think you believe, that there isn’t this war going on between the Jesuits and the Vatican as he portrays.  I believe they’re working hand-in-glove.  Do you?

Chris:  I do.  Now, there is – I think the Jesuits are working in conjunction with the Holy See, meaning the government of Rome.  But I think you have a lot of Catholics, a lot of sincere Catholics who do not like what the Jesuits have done to the Catholic Church, how they brought in Ecumenism, how they are supporting immoral practices and things like this, which many of your sincere traditional Catholics don’t approve of.  And so, the Jesuits have been at odds with different Catholic leaders and groups and things like that.

You know, if you study when Pacelli, Pope Pius XII tried to work out the agreement with Hitler – the concordat with Hitler, he went to one German leader after another after another.  Many of them were Catholics, and they said, “No.”  Because you have Catholics out there who really don’t like the idea of the Holy See and the papacy invading the rights of sovereign countries and things like that, and so they’ll oppose them.  And so, for this reason, they often find themselves at odds with the Jesuits.

Brannon:  But again, the Jesuits and, we think, the Holy See of the Vatican, are working hand-in-glove while some Catholics and Catholic groups are opposing what they’re doing.

Chris:  Right, exactly.

Brannon:  Okay, so, all that to say, you have a best-selling book by Malachi Martin that is The Jesuits.  He was a Jesuit.  You have TIME magazine, April 23, 1973.  I mean this is not conspiracy; this is well-documented.  Scores of books have been written about this.  Here’s what TIME magazine had to say, April 23, 1973:

Apart from their shared religious identity and their common appendage, SJ for Society of Jesus, they are a bewilderingly diverse fraternity.  They are seismologists, swamis –

Okay, wait a minute, let’s hold right there.  You have Catholic swamis?  Because that fits right in with their ecumenicalism.  And this is where we’ve shown pictures, and we can throw some up on the screen now, of this pope, the current pope.  And here we are filming in May of 2012, the last pope, Pope John Paul II, getting blessings from Hindu swamis, getting blessings from Native Americans or witchdoctors.  We have the pope kissing the Koran – the last pope, this pope.  I mean you have the pope standing with all these different world religious leaders.  This is why the TIME magazine, April 23, ’73, can say, “Hey, even some Jesuits are swamis,” because they’re trying to infiltrate all religions and then turn them back to Rome.

Chris:  Exactly.  I mean it’s exactly – Pope John Paul II took the mark of Shiva on his forehead.  He even, in Assisi, Italy, let the Dalai Lama go into a Catholic Church and take down the cross from the alter and put up a statue of the Buddha, and had the monks go in and worship there in a Catholic Church – worship Buddha in a Catholic Church.  Many Catholics are –

Brannon:  Offended.

Chris:  – shocked and offended by that when they learn it.  Some of them don’t even believe it happened, but it really did.  It’s all documented

Brannon:  Well, there’s actually a group of Catholics that put out a coffee table book with a lot of these pictures that we’ve shown on the program before, showing these pictures of these rituals that we’ve been talking about, with this ecumenicalism, and they’re appalled.  So, there are Catholics and Catholic groups that are saying, “We don’t like the fact the pope’s doing this,” and are denouncing it.

So, you would wonder why would TIME magazine, in ’73, say, “Hey, some of these Jesuits are swamis”?  The article went on to say, “They’re swamis; they’re architects; they’re engineers, theologians, winemakers, politicians, lawyers, social workers, astronomers, evolutionaries, economists, as well as missionaries, teachers and parish priests.”  The article went on to say, “The new Jesuit must still spend perhaps ten years in preparation, but he may live in a fraternity-style surroundings in Berkeley, in Cambridge, Massachusetts, or in Manhattan.”  Quoting out of the TIME magazine piece, where he goes on to quote this little poem, TIME magazine says, “There are Jesuits young and old all across the spectrum of opinion.  Observed Catholic Journalist John Cogley in an accurate bit of doggerel in the Jesuit weekly America:” he writes this little poem – quote –

There are Jesuits left and Jesuits right

A pro and con for most any fight

So wherever you stand, you stand not alone

Every little movement has a Jebbie of its own

– end quote.

Now, this is absolutely crucial, because what TIME magazine is noting, back in ’73, quoting this little poem by this Catholic journalist, “a Jebbie on every issue.”  That is Hegelian dialectic process.  You made reference to that awhile ago.  We have talked about the Hegelian dialectic process over and over for years.  And the reason we keep talking about it, Chris, is because if people don’t understand the Hegelian dialectic process, they don’t understand what is one of the major manipulative tools, tools for manipulation that is used today, not only by the Church of Rome, but by all kinds of people, all kinds of movements: the Communist Saul Alinsky types, the Barack Obama types, the Clintons, the Bushes.  I mean people from the Republican Party, to the Democratic Party, to the Communists, to the Vatican; this Hegelian dialectic process is used over and over again.

And I believe that the Hegelian dialectic process, which we’ll see in a minute, is a major tool of the Vatican, pitting opposites against each other, which is why you’ll have a Jesuit who’s a swami, a Jesuit who is a Communist, a Jesuit who is pro-Capitalist.  You have people on all sides of every issue in the Jesuit order – a Jebbie on the left, a Jebbie on the right, no matter where you stand, there’s a Jebbie in the fight.  They need that conflicting to cause things to synthesize or to merge together, which comes from the George Hegel of Germany, which gives us the Hegelian dialectic process.  But here’s TIME magazine even noting, “A Jebbie is going to be on every side of every issue.”  Would you agree with this?

Chris:  Oh, absolutely.  It’s why I mentioned earlier John Boehner and Nancy Pelosi.  They’re at opposite ends.  One’s a right-winger, another one’s a left-winger.  People typically, in the Christian community and Evangelicals, we think of Catholics as being strong conservatives.  Well, you have a lot of liberal Catholics like the Kennedy family, Nancy Pelosi – as we said earlier – and many others.  I mean Barack Obama, in fact, one of the – his inspiration for his grassroots campaign to become president was an ex-Jesuit named Gregory Galluzzo, who’s supporting here Obama, a strong left-winger, and then after he’s elected, he gets this honorary degree from Notre Dame University, a Catholic – typically Catholic University.  Why would they give Obama an honorary degree?  Because there’s a whole left wing – as part of this Hegelian back-and-forth system, there’s a whole left-wing in the Catholic Church that most people don’t know about.

Brannon:  Here’s the Chicago mag – we’ll get into this later in another program, but here’s Chicago mag.  You can find it right online.  Now, this is an article that I just stumbled across in my research a few months ago, and I was shocked.  And it, again, is an article about how this former Jesuit, Gregory Galluzzo, was a former Jesuit, and the article goes on to say that who does Barack Obama give credit for his becoming president and organizing his grassroots movement but none other than a Jesuit.  So, you have Jesuits on the Republican side; you have Jesuits on the Democrat side; you have Jesuits on the Socialist side; you have Jesuits on the free market side; they’re all over the place.

And that’s a major tool.  In fact, in his book, former Jesuit Malachi Martin wrote in his book in ’87 that – and he’s quote a well-known Jesuit of the ’70s, Francis Carney, he says, “Francis Carney, a prominent Jesuit of the 1970s, regarded dialectical conflict is that which should be – quote – treasured as a key to the future of Catholicism.”  This again is Malachi Martin, quoting this Jesuit, Francis Carney, saying dialectical conflict is important.  And he goes on to say it should be treasured as the key to the future of Catholicism.  So, what is the key to the future?  The dialectic, pitting opposites against each other.  And that’s what we have going on economically, politically, religiously.  This is the main tool.

I mean we’re going to look at eight areas the Jesuits have targeted.  Eight areas.  But in these eight areas, their main tool is the Hegelian dialectic process.  Would you agree?

Chris:  Oh, yeah.  And, you know, there’s a great quote that people could look up.  Maybe you’ll want to put it in this presentation from John Adams, shortly after the American Revolution, where he’s talking about the Jesuits, and he says famously, “I know of no body of men more deserving of eternal damnation on Earth or in hell than the Sons of Loyola,” meaning the Jesuit order.  And he said, “Because of our laws of religious liberty, will we not have regular swarms of them here in as many disguises as only a king of the gypsies can assume?”  And he goes on to say, “They’re going to be poets; they’re going to be artists; they’re going to be lawyers; they’re going to be merchants,” and on and on and on.  So, their many disguises, and the fact that they infiltrate all these different communities was well known even during the time of the American Revolution.

Brannon:  And in fact, they were banned from some of the colonies in the American Revolution.

Chris:  Yeah, they – well –

Brannon:  Actually, before the Revolution they were banned.

Chris:  Before the Revolution, yeah.

Brannon:  They were banned in the colonies.

Chris:  In Boston.  Massachusetts Bay had a ban on Jesuits and Catholic priests and Romanists.

Brannon:  They couldn’t live there.

Chris:  Couldn’t live there.

Brannon:  Because the folks who were putting together the colonies knew that they couldn’t be trusted, and that their goal would be to infiltrate and to turn it back to the Vatican.

Chris:  Absolutely.

Brannon:  And they didn’t want their colonies or their little governments they were forming to be controlled by the Vatican.

Chris:  I often point people to a document – a well-known document done by Samuel Adams, called “The Rights of the Colonists,” in 1772.  And if you read that document, Sam Adams is describing the Christian idea of religious tolerance.  And he says, “The belief is that tolerance should be extended to all whose religion is not subversive or hostile to the powers of the state.”  And he says, “Papists and Roman Catholics are excluded.”  And he goes on to explain how they create imperium imperio, I think he says.  That is an order within an order.  A secret order inside the countries that they operate, and then they plan and they plot to overthrow the established power and bring them under the authority of the pope.

Brannon:  And that’s why we’ll see, in another program, that the Vatican will even use Communism to create that chaos to overthrow those governments and then establish a new government that is loyal and subservient to them.

Chris:  Right.  And like you said earlier, Brannon, this is not – I think it’s important to stress to people this is not conspiracy theory.  You’ve got Samuel Adams.  You’ve got John Adams and so on.  We’ve got prominent figures of history.  There’s a whole host of others.  We could quote Napoleon Bonaparte and so on that talked about the Jesuits and their –

Brannon:  Charles Spurgeon.

Chris:  Charles Spurgeon, who wrote about them in The Sword and the Trowel many times.

Brannon:  And again, you’ve got TIME magazine doing a big piece on them, documenting some of the things we’ve been saying.

Chris:  When the Occupy Wall Street Movement came out, and there was all the chaos with Occupy Wall Street, you had the Jesuit priest, Tom Reese, who came out, and he was talking about the Occupy Wall Street protestors.  And he said that Pope Benedict was sympathetic with them.

Brannon:  Oh, yes, that made many secular news reports, that the Occupy Wall Street crowd had gained the support of the pope.

Chris:  Right.  And he was referencing the pope as being a Marxist, essentially, saying that, yes, he agrees with redistribution of wealth and a lot of these Socialist/Marxist principles.

Brannon:  Well, I saw another article a few years ago, “The Vatican Buries the Hatchet with Marx.”  That was another headline I have in our file.  Because again, this helps them to create the chaos and the dissension to overthrow those governments that are not subservient to them, and then they come in with a new government, and they establish their authority.  Just as you would have the Holy Roman Emperor I with the First Reich and the Second Reich, those were kings who had their kingdom, but they were loyal, and they were submissive to the Vatican.  Correct?

Chris:  Correct, absolutely.  That was the way that the government of the Middle Ages operated.  The pope would crown the Holy Roman Emperor, and that symbolized – because they believed the pope is in the place of God.  That because he’s the vicar of Christ, they say, and Christ is the King of Kings, they argue that the pope then is the chief king over all the kings of the world, and that all the kings owe him loyalty.  And so, when he gives them a crown, like Charlemagne and onward, that’s a symbol that Charlemagne is to rule under the authority of the pope.  And so, if he disobeys the pope, then the pope can take his crown away and kick him off the thrown and put somebody else there.  And this principle was what so many of the wars of old Europe were fought over; it was over papal authority.

And so, it’s why it’s so significant, bringing this up into modern times, when you have the Vatican supporting Hitler during World War II.  It’s the Roman Catholic Centre Party in Germany that gave Hitler his totalitarian power.  They’re the ones that voted to give him absolute authority.  You can find that in the book Hitler’s Pope by John Cornwell.  And John Cornwell’s a Cambridge scholar.  He had access to the Vatican’s archives to document all of this.  And it’s very symbolic because it was based upon an agreement that Hitler made with the Vatican, and they say, “Okay, we’re basically going to give you the crown of the Holy Roman Emperor and give you absolute authority in Germany.”  That’s what they did.

And there was even a TIME magazine article at the time, back in the 1930s, that knew history and said that Hitler was essentially being created or given the authority of the Holy Roman Emperor.

Brannon:  TIME magazine, 1930s.  Again, this is not conspiracy; this is mainstream publications have reported years ago what we’re reporting here today.

Chris:  Exactly.

Brannon:  It’s just forgotten history.

Chris:  Yeah.

Brannon:  But the reason we bring it up is because we’re seeing this being recreated, as there’s this push by the Vatican for a global power.  As we’ll see in another program, you have the pope calling for a world political authority with teeth; that it’s got to have religion.  And so, you see the Vatican working behind the scenes in Europe and around the world to create a global, dominant, world religious government, what again some were saying in the U.K. will be a revived Holy Roman Empire, and yet the Bible speaks of a revived Holy Roman Empire.  And then these world leaders will turn and give their power to the antichrist.

So, really, this is all historical and very important.  We talk about TIME magazine.  We talk about Malachi Martin and his best-selling book.  We talk about Spurgeon, all these different sources.  Well, here’s another source again to show you this is not conspiracy.  Here is Foxe’s Book of Martyrs.  I mean this is a well-known book.  Foxe’s Book of Martyrs describe the Jesuits this way:

The Emperor Ferdinand, whose hatred of the Bohemian Protestants, was without bounds, not thinking he had sufficiently oppressed them, instituted a High Court to prosecute the Reformers upon the plan of the Inquisition, with this difference: that the Court was to travel from place to place and always to be attended by a body of troops.  This Court was conducted chiefly by Jesuits, and from their decision, there was no appeal, by which it may be easily conjectured that it was a dreadful tribunal indeed.

Foxe’s Book of Martyrs goes on to say:

This bloody Court, attended by a body of troops, made the tour of Bohemia.  They seldom examined or saw a prisoner, for the soldiers were permitted to murder the Protestants as they pleased and then to make a report of the matter to them afterward.

So, here we have Foxe’s Book of Martyrs documenting the Jesuit order and what it was doing, and, of course, we have a – about an over 600-year period there where you had 50 million Christians that were martyred during this Inquisition.  There was a report I discovered and sent on to you, and you put on your website – I have it on my website – of a professor in South Carolina did a rather thick report doing a historical documentation of the number 50 million.  That that number of 50 million Christians slaughtered is very credible.  In fact, I had one friend of mine, a very distinguished gentleman in his 70s, who’s written many books and is very, very knowledgeable.  He said, “Can you document this number of 50 million?”

I said, “Yes, I can.”  And I sent him a URL of the PDF of this professor’s report out of South Carolina.

And when he got done reading it, he said, “How could anyone question that?”  I mean he wasn’t sure the number 50 million was accurate, but he got done reading the report, and all the historical footnotes, there’s no doubt 50 million were killed – Protestants killed during the Jesuit Inquisition.

Chris:  Yeah, that number is consistent with what other historians of the past have said.  I know John Dowling’s book The History of Romanism from the 19th century, he documents similar numbers.  But that’s – it’s considered a total of 68 million who were killed by the inquisitions, it’s believed, for over 600 years, and 50 million of those were Bible-believing Christians who were literally persecuted simply because they believed the Bible is the Word of God, and they rejected the authority of the pope, and would not submit to Rome.  That’s why they were killed.

Brannon:  Amazing.  Let’s get into the ceremony of induction and extreme oath.  This is something again that is a matter of historical record.  The Jesuits try to refute this, but it’s not refutable.  I mean it’s out there.  It’s documented, is it not?

Chris:  Oh, yeah.  Yeah, it’s been documented for hundreds of years.

Brannon:  And so, if you go online and start researching, the listeners and the viewers should not be shocked if they see pro-Vatican websites saying, “This is false.”  But it has been – of course they’re going to say it’s false.  When you read what it says, of course they’re going to deny it.  But it has been verified.

Chris:  The argument that they make, Brannon, is they say that in the 19th century, this was exposed, supposedly, in a book that was published.  But then you research that book, and it turns out it was written by a Catholic priest who was working with the Counter-Reformation in England at that time.  And they were questioning everything historically that had been well known by the English and by Protestants and people who were exposing the Jesuits in particular.  So, that’s the only – like if you do research, and they say, “Oh, this was exposed.”  Go and look at the exposure.  You’ll see it was a Catholic priest who did it.  And again.  So, I think it’s not trustworthy.  I mean the thing goes back to the 1600s.

Brannon:  What is not trustworthy?

Chris:  The Catholic priest’s reputation.  I think it’s not trustworthy.  I think the Jesuit Oath is trustworthy.  It goes back to the 1600s.  It’s been well documented.  It’s been – it was supported by Archbishop Usher, who was a very prominent Protestant churchman, and it’s been cited by Dr. Ian Paisley, in Northern Ireland, in modern times.

Brannon:  Who was probably one of the world – maybe the world-premier expert on the Jesuit order.

Chris:  On the Jesuits and the Vatican and the Church of Rome.  He’s been fighting against Rome’s influence in Northern Ireland for decades.

Brannon:  So, if they could prove it to be false, to use it and discredit him, they would have done it already.

Chris:  Right, yeah.

Brannon:  Well, here’s the Jesuit oath, as we conclude the program.  This is what the Jesuits swear to:

I therefore, to the utmost of my power I shall and will defend this doctrine of his Holiness’ right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority.

He goes on to say:

I do further declare that the doctrine of the churches of England and Scotland, of the Calvinists, the Huguenots and others of the name Protestants or liberals to be damnable and they themselves damned who will not forsake the same.

Now, this is not the entire oath, because it’s long.  So, I’m just reading you parts of it.

I do further declare that I will help, assist, and advise all or any of his Holiness’ agents, in any place, wherever I shall be – in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, England, Ireland, or America, or in any other kingdom or territory I shall come to – and do my uttermost to extirpate the heretical Protestants’ or liberals’ doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, regal or otherwise.

It goes on to say:

I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly –

That’s a key word.

– secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate [exterminate] them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants’ heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race.

Then the oath goes on to say:

That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus.

It continues:

In confirmation of which, I hereby dedicate my life, my soul and all my corporal powers, and with this dagger which I now receive, I will subscribe my name written in my own blood, in testimony thereof; and should I prove false or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the Militia of the Pope cut off my hands and my feet, and my throat from ear to ear, my belly opened and sulfur burned therein, with all the punishments that can be inflicted upon me on earth and my soul be tortured by demons in an eternal hell forever!

Wow.  Well, of course, they’re going to deny that that’s a legitimate oath because look at what it’s saying.  And here we have the front image of the Church of Rome, the Vatican, that, “We’re open, and we’re friendly, and we’re tolerant,” but in reality, the Jesuit order and the Jesuit general historically, many believe, as do you and I, that they’re waging a secret and open war with this – continuing with this Counter-Reformation to this day.

What is the – as we conclude Part 1 and get ready for our next program, what is the overall theme we’re trying to convey to our Christian brothers and sisters?

Chris:  Well, I think it’s to make people – I think the first step that I have found, in my experience, in terms of talking to people about these issues, is to make people aware that the Counter-Reformation is happening today; that it’s not just something from the history of the Middle Ages, but that it’s taking place, and it’s really the key to understanding what’s happening in the Church, what’s happening in our government, what’s happening to our economy.

You know, we’ve talked a lot about what’s going on with the European Union, but so much of the turmoil that they’re facing, people are saying the same storm clouds are gathering for America in a similar way.  And so, I believe that the contrast, because it was said back in 1888, that the Vatican’s ambition was to convert both England and the United States of America, and then to use our two countries to take over the whole world.

Brannon:  And I believe that Counter-Reformation continues to this day.

My guest and friend here is Chris Pinto.  He’s with noiseofthunder.com.  You can check out his website, noiseofthunder.com.  You can hear his daily radio show there, as well as on our website at worldviewradio.com.  Worldviewradio.com.  We’re going to be recording several programs in this series of the Counter-Reformation of the Jesuit order.  I hope you’ll tune in to the next program.

We look forward to our next program, where Chris Pinto and I will continue with Part 2 of the “Counter-Reformation of the Jesuit Order.”  Till next time, I’m Brannon Howse.  For all of us here at Worldview Weekend, thanks for watching.

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